# NTSB ANC08LA122: Piper PA-18, N7174K, Talkeetna, AK, September 11, 2008

- Type: NTSB accident investigation
- Classification: Accident · Fatal · Limited investigation · Final report
- Date: September 10, 2008, 16:30 local (Sep 11, 2008, 00:30 UTC)
- Place: Talkeetna, AK
- Coordinates: 62.404724, -148.794448 (estimated)
- Nearby events: https://openairdocs.org/map.md?lat=62.4047&lon=-148.7944&mi=10
- Phase of flight: [Maneuvering](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-phases/450) (OpenAirDocs' grouping)
- Defining event: [Maneuvering-low-alt flying: Aerodynamic stall/spin](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/241)
- Highest injury: Fatal
- Injuries: 1 fatal, 1 serious
- Status: Completed, report September 30, 2009
- Report: Approved by Office Director
- NTSB office: Alaska Regional Office
- Parties: Anchorage FSDO-03
- NTSB case key (mKey): 68938
- NTSB case page: https://web.ntsb.gov/investigations/?ntsbnumber=ANC08LA122
- NTSB report (PDF, downloads): https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/68938/pdf
- NTSB docket: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=68938
- Page: https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/ANC08LA122

## Probable cause

The pilot's failure to maintain sufficient airspeed to preclude a stall while maneuvering at a low altitude, resulting in an uncontrolled descent and collision with terrain.

## Findings

NTSB's coded findings; those marked are part of the probable cause.

- [Performance/control parameters: airspeed](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/01062010): Aircraft › Aircraft oper/perf/capability · Not attained/maintained (probable cause); cases with it: [Piper PA-18, 5 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/01062010/cases.md?model=7101802), [All aircraft, 1,681 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/01062010/cases.md)
- [Use of equip/info: aircraft control](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02063040): Personnel issues › Task performance · Pilot (probable cause); cases with it: [Piper PA-18, 21 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02063040/cases.md?model=7101802), [All aircraft, 9,295 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02063040/cases.md)

## Sequence of events

The events NTSB coded, in order, by phase of flight. The defining event best describes what happened.

- [Maneuvering-low-alt flying: Loss of control in flight](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/240); cases with it: [Piper PA-18, 8 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/240/sequence.md?model=7101802), [All aircraft, 5,002 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/240/sequence.md)
- [Maneuvering-low-alt flying: Aerodynamic stall/spin](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/241) (defining event); cases with it: [Piper PA-18, 3 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/241/sequence.md?model=7101802), [All aircraft, 1,529 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/241/sequence.md)
- [Uncontrolled descent: Collision with terr/obj (non-CFIT) ](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/470); cases with it: [Piper PA-18, 19 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/470/sequence.md?model=7101802), [All aircraft, 10,189 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/470/sequence.md)
- [Post-impact: Fire/smoke (post-impact)](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/170); cases with it: [Piper PA-18, 1 case](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/170/sequence.md?model=7101802), [All aircraft, 354 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/170/sequence.md)

## Analysis

The commercial pilot was on a Title 14, CFR Part 91, local area passenger flight in conjunction with his hunting/guiding business. The flight was to include landing at remote off airport sites. According to the surviving passenger, he and the pilot headed for a remote area to look for caribou. He said they were circling to the left looking for a likely camp site. He said the turn became tighter, and the angle of bank became steeper. The passenger said the angle of bank suddenly became very steep, and he heard the pilot say something like "Oh No!" over the intercom. He said he looked forward, and saw the ground through the front windscreen. The passenger said the airplane's left wing struck the ground first, followed by the nose. A fire erupted, and after putting out the fire and attempting to help the pilot, the passenger said he headed toward a camp they had seen from the air to get help. According to the passenger there were no known mechanical anomalies with the airplane prior to the accident. Given the absence of any mechanical issues with the airplane, the steep bank, and sudden decrease in pitch attitude, it is likely the pilot inadvertently stalled the airplane during the turn.

## Factual narrative

On September 10, 2008, about 1630 Alaska daylight time, a Piper PA-18 airplane, N7174K, sustained substantial damage during an in-flight collision with terrain and postcrash fire, about 40 miles east of Talkeetna, Alaska. The airplane was being operated by the pilot as a visual flight rules (VFR), local other work use flight, in conjunction with his hunting guide business, under Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the accident occurred. The commercial pilot received fatal injuries, and the sole passenger received serious injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed. The airplane departed the Talkeetna Airport, Talkeetna, about 1600. The airplane was reported overdue on September 10, when it failed to return to Talkeetna for a second passenger. Weather and darkness precluded a search of the area until September 11. On September 11, searchers located the airplane's wreckage, and the deceased pilot. The search continued for the passenger, until he was located about 5 miles from the accident site, trying to find help. During a telephone conversation with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigator-in-charge (IIC) on September 12, the passenger said he and the pilot took off from the Talkeetna Airport looking for caribou to hunt, and a site to setup a hunting camp. He said they were about 40 miles east of Talkeetna, and started to circle a likely camp site. He said the airplane was in a left circling turn, and the turn became tighter, and the angle of bank became steeper. The passenger said at one point the angle of bank suddenly became very steep, and he heard the pilot say something like "Oh No!" over the intercom. He said he had been looking out the left side of the airplane, and the airplane was in a steep bank to the left. When he looked forward, he saw the ground. The passenger said the airplane's left wing struck the ground first, followed by the nose. He said the next thing he remembered was being outside the airplane, trying to put out the fire on himself, and then the pilot. He said his efforts to help the pilot, after extinguishing the fire, were in vain. He spent the night at the airplane, and when nobody came in the morning, he headed in the direction of a camp about 10 miles away. He said there were no problems with the airplane prior to the accident. Attempts by the IIC to reach the accident site on September 16 and 19 were canceled due to weather, and due to approaching winter storms no further attempts to reach the site were made. The airplane has not been examined by the NTSB. The accident site is located on a ridge in steep mountainous terrain bounded on two sides by rivers/creeks. Aerial photographs of the airplane taken from a search aircraft while looking for the missing passenger, showed the airplane impacted in a steep descent. The impact site appeared small in diameter, with no discernible horizontal component. All of the airplane's major components appeared to be at the site. Anexamination of the airplane's logbooks showed an annual inspection was performed on April 1, 2008, and no mechanical anomalies were noted. No personal pilot records were discovered for examination. According to FAA medical records, the latest application for an FAA medical certificate dated February 23, 2007, showed the pilot received an FAA third class medical certificate that date, and reported 2,000 hours of total flying experience. An autopsy performed by the Alaska State Medical Examiner showed the cause of death was blunt force trauma resulting from an airplane crash. Toxicological examination of tissue samples performed by the FAA Civil Aeromedical Institute (CAMI) in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, were negative.

## Aircraft

- Registration: [N7174K](https://openairdocs.org/aircraft/N7174K), registered now, S/N 18-393, built 1951 (OpenAirDocs)
- Reported make and model: PIPER PA-18
- Registry model: [Piper PA-18](https://openairdocs.org/model/piper-pa-18) (registry code 7101802) (OpenAirDocs)
- Registry engine: [Lycoming 0-320 series](https://openairdocs.org/engine/lycoming-0-320-series) (registry code 41508, reciprocating) (OpenAirDocs)
- Category: Airplane
- Serial number: 18-393
- Airframe hours: 3503
- Engines: LYCOMING O-320 SERIES 180 horsepower reciprocating
- Damage: Substantial damage
- Fire: On-Ground
- Flight: Other work use, Part 91
- Operator: Dinello Frank A
- Registered owner: Dinello Frank A
- Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal
- Last inspection: Annual, April 1, 2008
- Departed: PATK, Talkeetna, AK

## Flight crew

As NTSB recorded them. NTSB leaves out names.

- Pilot; age 48; injuries: fatal; commercial; airplane ratings: single-engine land; medical: class 3, without waivers/limitations; seat: front; toxicology performed; flight hours: 2,000 total

## Weather

- Conditions: Visual (VMC), Day
- Wind: calm
- Visibility: 10 statute miles
- Lowest ceiling: none
- Temperature: 61 °F, dew point 43 °F
- Altimeter: 29.30 inHg
- Observed at: PATK, 40 nm away

## FAA reports on this event (1)

The FAA's own accident and incident reports, matched to the aircraft by N-number and date (OpenAirDocs).

- [Accident 20080910846639A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/20080910846639A), Sep 10, 2008: Piper PA18, AL, Destroyed, 1 fatal. (-23) The pilot was looking for a place to camp for a hunting trip. While in a tight turn to look at a potential camp spot, the aircraft stall. The pilot was…

## Other investigations on N7174K (2)

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

- [NTSB ANC01LA006](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/ANC01LA006), Oct 11, 2000: Piper PA-18 (N7174K), Iliamna, AK, substantial damage. Probable cause: The pilot's inadequate weather evaluation. A factor in the accident was a high wind.
- [NTSB ANC99LA111](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/ANC99LA111), Aug 12, 1999: Piper PA-18 (N7174K), Talkeetna, AK, substantial damage. Probable cause: The pilot's selection of unsuitable terrain for landing. A factor was high vegetation in the landing area.

## Docket (3 files)

The files NTSB released with the investigation on September 9, 2009, on NTSB's docket system: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=68938. 261 KB in all.

- Passenger Statement (item 1, .PDF, 48 KB): https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40318565&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Passenger%20Statement-Master.PDF
- Toxicological Report (item 2, .PDF, 62 KB): https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40318566&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Toxicological%20Report-Master.PDF
- Annotated Photo 1 - Aerial View (item 3, .PDF, 150 KB): https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40318568&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Annotated%20Photo%201%20-%20Aerial%20View-Master.PDF

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

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