# NTSB ANC14CA004: Piper J3C 65, N70604, Talkeetna, AK, October 10, 2013

- Type: NTSB accident investigation
- Classification: Accident · No injuries · Data collection · Final report
- Date: October 10, 2013, 14:15 local (22:15 UTC)
- Place: Talkeetna, AK
- Coordinates: 62.618888, -150.958892 (estimated)
- Nearby events: https://openairdocs.org/map.md?lat=62.6189&lon=-150.9589&mi=10
- Phase of flight: [Landing](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-phases/550) (OpenAirDocs' grouping)
- Defining event: [Landing-flare/touchdown: Nose over/nose down](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/096)
- Highest injury: No injuries
- Injuries: 1 uninjured
- Status: Completed, report April 1, 2014
- Report: Approved by Office Director
- NTSB office: Alaska Regional Office
- Parties: FAA Anchorage FSDO
- NTSB case key (mKey): 88345
- NTSB case page: https://web.ntsb.gov/investigations/?ntsbnumber=ANC14CA004
- NTSB report (PDF, downloads): https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/88345/pdf
- NTSB docket: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=88345
- Page: https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/ANC14CA004

## Probable cause

The pilot's decision to make contact with an unsuitable landing surface, resulting in a nose over.

## Findings

NTSB's coded findings; those marked are part of the probable cause.

- [Use of equip/info: aircraft control](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02063040): Personnel issues › Task performance · Pilot (probable cause); cases with it: [Piper J3C-65, 43 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02063040/cases.md?model=7100510), [All aircraft, 9,295 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02063040/cases.md)
- [Runway/land/takeoff/taxi surface: snow/slush/ice covered surface](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/03023015): Environmental issues › Physical environment · Decision related to condition (probable cause); cases with it: [Piper J3C-65, 1 case](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/03023015/cases.md?model=7100510), [All aircraft, 219 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/03023015/cases.md)
- [Info processing/decision: identification/recognition](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02041510): Personnel issues › Action/decision · Pilot; cases with it: [Piper J3C-65, 7 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02041510/cases.md?model=7100510), [All aircraft, 559 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-findings/02041510/cases.md)

## Sequence of events

The events NTSB coded, in order, by phase of flight. The defining event best describes what happened.

- [Landing-flare/touchdown: Nose over/nose down](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/096) (defining event); cases with it: [Piper J3C-65, 9 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/096/sequence.md?model=7100510), [All aircraft, 2,287 cases](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-events/096/sequence.md)

## Analysis

The pilot was performing a low pass of a snow-covered off-airport landing site, in a wheel-equipped airplane, to determine the condition of the snow pack. He was dragging the main landing gear on the landing surface, but the snow was deeper than expected, and the airplane nosed over sustaining substantial damage to the vertical stabilizer. The pilot reported no preaccident mechanical malfunctions or failures that would have prevented normal operation.

## Factual narrative

The pilot was performing a low pass of a snow-covered off-airport landing site, in a wheel-equipped airplane, to determine the condition of the snow pack. He was dragging the main landing gear on the landing surface, but the snow was deeper than expected, and the airplane nosed over sustaining substantial damage to the vertical stabilizer. The pilot reported no preaccident mechanical malfunctions or failures that would have prevented normal operation.

## Aircraft

- Registration: [N70604](https://openairdocs.org/aircraft/N70604), registered now, S/N 17613, built 1946 (OpenAirDocs)
- Reported make and model: PIPER J3C 65 (65)
- Registry model: [Piper J3C-65](https://openairdocs.org/model/piper-j3c-65) (registry code 7100510) (OpenAirDocs)
- Registry engine: [Continental C85 series](https://openairdocs.org/engine/continental-c85-series) (registry code 17008, reciprocating) (OpenAirDocs)
- Category: Airplane
- Serial number: 17613
- Year built: 1946
- Engines: CONT MOTOR O-200 85 horsepower unknown
- Damage: Substantial damage
- Flight: Personal, Part 91
- Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal
- Last inspection: Annual, June 18, 2013, 20 hours before
- Departed: PATK, Talkeetna, AK
- Destination: Talkeetna, AK
- Flight plan: VFR

## Flight crew

As NTSB recorded them. NTSB leaves out names.

- Pilot; age 48; injuries: none; flight instructor, airline transport; airplane ratings: single-engine sea, single-engine land, multi-engine land; instrument ratings: airplane; medical: class 1, without waivers/limitations; last flight review June 1, 2013; seat: front; restraint: lap only; flight hours: 8,800 total, 750 in this make and model

## Weather

- Conditions: Visual (VMC), Day
- Wind: 45° at 8 knots
- Visibility: 10 statute miles
- Lowest ceiling: none
- Temperature: 32 °F

## FAA reports on this event (1)

The FAA's own accident and incident reports, matched to the aircraft by N-number and date (OpenAirDocs).

- [Accident 20131010021169A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/20131010021169A), Oct 10, 2013: Piper J3C-65, Talkeetna, AK, Substantial damage. During an attempted landing at Bear Creek strip, an unimproved 1600 foot strip located at 2455 feet elevation, the airman underestimated the depth of freshly…

## Other investigations on N70604 (2)

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

- [NTSB ANC82IA067](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/ANC82IA067), Aug 5, 1982: Piper J-3 (N70604), Near Big Lake, AK, incident, minor damage
- [NTSB ANC68F0021](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/ANC68F0021), Jun 9, 1967: Piper J-3 (N70604), Talkeetna, AK, substantial damage

## Docket (1 files)

The files NTSB released with the investigation on March 13, 2014, on NTSB's docket system: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=88345. 751 KB in all.

- Pilot/Operator Aircraft Accident Report, NTSB Form 6120.1 (item 1, .PDF, 751 KB): https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40408601&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Pilot%2FOperator%20Aircraft%20Accident%20Report,%20NTSB%20Form%206120.1-Redacted.PDF

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

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