# NTSB CHI01LA280: Cessna 182A, N4080D, Grosse Ile, MI, August 12, 2001 - Type: NTSB accident investigation - Classification: Accident · No injuries · Limited investigation · Final report - Date: August 12, 2001, 14:00 local (18:00 UTC) - Place: Grosse Ile, MI - Coordinates: 42.13058, -83.15026 (estimated) - Nearby events: https://openairdocs.org/map.md?lat=42.1306&lon=-83.1503&mi=10 - Phase of flight: [Landing](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-phases/550) (OpenAirDocs' grouping) - Highest injury: No injuries - Injuries: 3 uninjured - Status: Completed, report June 4, 2002 - Report: Approved by Office Director - Parties: FAA - NTSB case key (mKey): 53034 - NTSB case page: https://web.ntsb.gov/investigations/?ntsbnumber=CHI01LA280 - NTSB report (PDF, downloads): https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/53034/pdf - Page: https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/CHI01LA280 ## Probable cause Both the CFI and the student pilot on board improperly flared the airplane and the CFI's failure to perform remedial action during the landing. ## Sequence of events In NTSB's coding before 2008 (https://www.ntsb.gov/GILS/Documents/codman.pdf). - Hard landing, landing - flare/touchdown - flare - improper, flightcrew (cause) - remedial action - not performed, pilot in command(cfi) (cause) ## Analysis The airplane bounced hard during landing. The CFI reported that during the approach he noticed that the student "was not in position to safely land a/c" and he repeatedly "ordered" the student to relinquish the flight controls, but the student did not. He reported that the result was a hard landing. The student pilot reported that he and the CFI were wearing noise reduction ear plugs. He stated that both he and the CFI were on the flight controls during the flight and the landing. The student stated that no commands were given during the landing. The back seat passenger was also a pilot. He reported that both the CFI and the student had their hands on the flight controls during the landing. He reported the airplane hit hard on the runway, bounced 15 feet in the air, then came down hard on the nose gear, striking the propeller on the runway. He reported the airplane oscillated several more times and the student pushed the throttle forward as if to go around. He reported he shouted from the backseat "shut it down - we're finished." The power was reduced to idle and the airplane was stopped on the runway. The back seat passenger's perception of the student pilot was that he seemed "overly confident and aggressive with regard to his piloting abilities." The student had not had any "formal" training in the Cessna 182. The student reported the purpose of the flight was to attend a fly-in breakfast at Oscoda, not flight instruction. ## Factual narrative On August 12, 2001, at 1400 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 182A, N4080D, experienced a hard touchdown while landing on runway 17 (4,425 feet by 75 feet, concrete) at the Grosse Ile Municipal Airport, Grosse Ile, Michigan. The certified flight instructor (CFI), student pilot and passenger were not injured. The airplane was substantially damaged. The 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual meteorological conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from Oscoda, Michigan at approximately 1230. The CFI reported that during the landing approach, at an altitude of 400 to 500 feet above the ground, he noticed that the student "was not in position to safely land a/c." The CFI reported that he repeatedly "ordered" the student to relinquish the flight controls, but the student would not do so. He reported that the result was a hard landing. The CFI reported that the student maintained control of the airplane until it came to rest. The student pilot reported that he and the CFI were wearing noise reduction ear plugs. He stated that both he and the CFI were on the flight controls during the flight. The student reported that upon reaching the Grosse Ile area, he asked the CFI if he could land the airplane and the CFI nodded yes. The student reported the landing was made with the CFI also on the flight controls. The student stated that no commands were given during the landing. The student reported that the airplane hit hard on both main gear, bounced back into the air, and hit the runway again before coming to rest. The student's flight training had been in Cessna 150 and Cessna 172 airplanes, he had no "formal" training in the Cessna 182. The student reported the purpose of the flight was to attend a fly-in breakfast at Oscoda, not flight instruction. The owner of the airplane, the student's brother, stated that the CFI did not have approval to allow the student to land the airplane, because his insurance would not cover a non-certificated pilot. The passenger in the back seat of the airplane was also a certificated pilot. He reported that both the CFI and the student had their hands on the flight controls during the landing. He reported the airplane hit hard on the runway, bounced 15 feet in the air, then came down hard on the nose gear, striking the propeller on the runway. He reported the airplane oscillated several more times and the student pushed the throttle forward as if to go around. He reported he shouted from the backseat "shut it down - we're finished." The power was reduced to idle and the airplane was stopped on the runway. The back seat passenger's perception of the student pilot was that he seemed "overly confident and aggressive with regard to his piloting abilities." Post accident inspection of the airplane revealed damage to the propeller, firewall, and lower fuselage. ## Aircraft - Registration: [N4080D](https://openairdocs.org/aircraft/N4080D), registered now, S/N 34780, built 1957 (OpenAirDocs) - Reported make and model: Cessna 182A - Registry model: [Cessna 182A](https://openairdocs.org/model/cessna-182a) (registry code 2072704) (OpenAirDocs) - Registry engine: [Continental O-470 series](https://openairdocs.org/engine/continental-o-470-series) (registry code 17026, reciprocating) (OpenAirDocs) - Category: Airplane - Serial number: 34780 - Engines: Continental O-470 230 horsepower reciprocating - Damage: Substantial damage - Flight: Personal, Part 91 - Registered owner: Gary L. Frischcorn - Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal - Departed: OSC, Oscoda, MI - Destination: ONZ, Grosse Ile, MI - Airport: ONZ, Grosse Ile Municipal, runway 17, 4,425 × 75 ft, concrete ## Flight crew As NTSB recorded them. NTSB leaves out names. - Flight instructor; age 55; injuries: none; commercial, flight instructor; airplane ratings: multi-engine land, single-engine land; instrument ratings: airplane; medical: class 1, valid medical--w/ waivers/lim; last flight review January 14, 2002; seat: right; flight hours: 2,500 total, 1,000 in this make and model, 2,400 as pilot in command, 100 in the last 90 days, 35 in the last 30 days, 4 in the last 24 hours - Other flight crew; injuries: none - Student pilot; injuries: none; medical: class 3; seat: left ## Weather - Conditions: Visual (VMC), Day - Wind: 130° at 5 knots - Visibility: 10 statute miles - Lowest ceiling: 6,000 ft broken - Temperature: 79 °F, dew point 63 °F - Altimeter: 30.07 inHg - Observed at: DTW, 11 nm away ## FAA reports on this event (1) The FAA's own accident and incident reports, matched to the aircraft by N-number and date (OpenAirDocs). - [Accident 20010812026399A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/20010812026399A), Aug 12, 2001: Cessna 182A, Detroit/Grosse, MI, No damage. (-23) On landing at onz, aircraft N4080D impacted the runway hard, recoiling, then again impacting the runway in a somewhat nose down attitude. The propeller… From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model. --- OpenAirDocs.org is an independent research project of [Contrail Labs](https://contraillabs.com/). It is not affiliated with the FAA or the NTSB. Source documents are U.S. government works in the public domain.