# NTSB CHI88LA021: Piper PA-28-161, N8253E, Detroit, MI, November 7, 1987

- Type: NTSB accident investigation
- Classification: Accident · No injuries · Limited investigation · Final report
- Date: November 7, 1987, 12:41 local (17:41 UTC)
- Place: Detroit, MI
- Coordinates: 42.400291, -83.000953 (estimated)
- Nearby events: https://openairdocs.org/map.md?lat=42.4003&lon=-83.0010&mi=10
- Phase of flight: [Standing](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-phases/150) (OpenAirDocs' grouping)
- Highest injury: No injuries
- Injuries: 5 uninjured
- Status: Completed, report February 24, 1989
- Report: Approved by Office Director
- NTSB case key (mKey): 14013
- NTSB case page: https://web.ntsb.gov/investigations/?ntsbnumber=CHI88LA021
- NTSB report (PDF, downloads): https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/14013/pdf
- Page: https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/CHI88LA021

## Sequence of events

In NTSB's coding before 2008 (https://www.ntsb.gov/GILS/Documents/codman.pdf).

- On ground/water collision with object, standing - engine(s) operating
  - object - aircraft moving on ground (contributing factor)
  - visual lookout - inadequate, pilot of other aircraft (cause)
- On ground/water collision with object, taxi
  - object - aircraft parked/standing (contributing factor)
  - visual lookout - inadequate, pilot in command (cause)

## Analysis (aircraft 2)

THE PLT OF NORTH AMERICAN P-51D, N6341T, WAS SOUTHBOUND ON TWY ALPHA AS THE PLT OF PIPER PA-28 CHEROKEE, N8253E, TAXIED FROM THE RUN-UP AREA TO THE HOLD LINE FOR RWY 33, WHICH WAS NEAR THE INTXN OF TWYS ALPHA & INDIA. THE PLT OF THE TAIL- WHEEL EQUIPPED P-51 WAS S-TURNING AS HE TAXIED TO CLEAR THE AREA AHEAD. HOWEVER, WHILE CROSSING THE INTXN OF TWYS ALPHA & INDIA IN A LEFT S-TURN, HIS RGT WING STRUCK THE EMPENNAGE OF THE PA-28. THE PA-28 WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DMGD WHILE THE P-51 RCVD MINOR DAMAGE. THE PA-28 PLT SAID HE HAD CONTACTED GND CTL BEFORE TAXIING FROM THE RUN-UP AREA TO THE HOLD LINE, THEN HAD CHANGED TO TOWER FREQ. HOWEVER, HE HAD DELAYED CONTACTING THE TOWER DUE TO RADIO CONGESTION ON THAT FREQ.THE P-51 PLT STATED THAT FROM A DISTANCE, HE SAW ANOTHER ACFT MOVING WEST ACROSS HIS PATH, BUT HE DID NOT RECEIVE AN ADZY OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF THE PA-28. A CHECK OF THE TOWER TAPE REVEALED THE GND CTLR HAD TRANSMITTED TO THE P-51 PLT 'CAUTION FOR CHEROKEE AHEAD AND TO YOUR RIGHT.'

## Aircraft 1

- Registration: [N8253E](https://openairdocs.org/deregistered/N8253E-2001-11-08), registration cancelled 2001-11-08, S/N 28-8216183, built 1982 (OpenAirDocs)
- Reported make and model: PIPER PA-28-161
- Registry model: [Piper PA-28-161](https://openairdocs.org/model/piper-pa-28-161) (registry code 7102803) (OpenAirDocs)
- Registry engine: [Lycoming 0-320 series](https://openairdocs.org/engine/lycoming-0-320-series) (registry code 41508, reciprocating) (OpenAirDocs)
- Category: Airplane
- Serial number: 28-8216183
- Airframe hours: 3367
- Engines: LYCOMING O-320-D3G 160 horsepower reciprocating
- Damage: Substantial damage
- Flight: Personal, Part 91
- Registered owner: Olsen Flight Service
- Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal
- Last inspection: 100 hour, October 16, 1987, 50 hours before
- Departed: DET
- Airport: DET, Detroit City, runway 33, 5,090 × 100 ft, asphalt

## Aircraft 2

- Registration: N6341T (not matched to a registry record)
- Reported make and model: NORTH AMERICAN P-51D
- Category: Airplane
- Serial number: 44-74774
- Airframe hours: 2503
- Engines: Rolls-Royce V-1650 1720 horsepower reciprocating
- Damage: Minor damage
- Flight: Business, Part 91
- Registered owner: Robert F. Byrne
- Airworthiness certificate: Special, Limited (Special)
- Last inspection: Annual, July 15, 1987
- Departed: DET
- Destination: DET
- Airport: DET, Detroit City, runway 33, 5,090 × 100 ft, asphalt

## Flight crew

As NTSB recorded them. NTSB leaves out names.

- Pilot, aircraft N8253E; age 26; commercial, flight instructor; airplane ratings: single-engine land, multi-engine land; instrument ratings: airplane; medical: class 2, valid medical--no waivers/lim.; seat: left; flight hours: 520 total, 20 in this make and model, 376 as pilot in command, 170 in the last 90 days, 3 in the last 24 hours
- Pilot, aircraft N6341T; age 65; private; airplane ratings: single-engine land, multi-engine land; medical: class 3, valid medical--w/ waivers/lim; seat: front; flight hours: 2,090 total, 516 in this make and model, 2,090 as pilot in command, 45 in the last 90 days, 1 in the last 24 hours

## Weather

- Conditions: Visual (VMC), Day
- Wind: calm
- Visibility: 15 statute miles
- Lowest ceiling: none
- Temperature: 54 °F, dew point 34 °F
- Altimeter: 30.00 inHg
- Observed at: DET

## FAA reports on this event (2)

The FAA's own accident and incident reports, matched to the aircraft by N-number and date (OpenAirDocs).

- [Accident 19871107062422A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/19871107062422A), Nov 7, 1987: Piper PA28161, Detroit, MI, Substantial damage. While holding for departure on taxiway for runway 33 aircraft was struck from the rear by a P51D N6341T.
- [Accident 19871107062421A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/19871107062421A), Nov 7, 1987: Namer P51D, Detroit, MI, Minor damage. Taxiing to ramp,pilot hit N8253E PA28161 from the rear. A ircraft was holding for clearance. Tower issued traffic.

## Other investigations on N8253E (1)

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

- [NTSB MIA99LA059](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/MIA99LA059), Dec 27, 1998: Piper PA-28-161 (N8253E), Conyers, GA, substantial damage. Probable cause: The pilot's decision to attempt a touch-and-go landing with insufficient runway remaining, and his failure to maintain adequate clearance from an object (tree).

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

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