# NTSB LAX85FA202: Cessna 172M, N73708, Camp Verde, AZ, April 14, 1985 - Type: NTSB accident investigation - Classification: Accident · Fatal · Field investigation · Final report - Date: April 14, 1985, 10:00 local (17:00 UTC) - Place: Camp Verde, AZ - Coordinates: 34.479293, -111.780609 (estimated) - Nearby events: https://openairdocs.org/map.md?lat=34.4793&lon=-111.7806&mi=10 - Phase of flight: [Maneuvering](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-phases/450) (OpenAirDocs' grouping) - Highest injury: Fatal - Injuries: 2 fatal, 2 serious, 4 uninjured - Status: Completed - Report: Approved by Office Director - NTSB case key (mKey): 24489 - NTSB case page: https://web.ntsb.gov/investigations/?ntsbnumber=LAX85FA202 - NTSB report (PDF, downloads): https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/24489/pdf - Page: https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/LAX85FA202 ## Sequence of events In NTSB's coding before 2008 (https://www.ntsb.gov/GILS/Documents/codman.pdf). - Midair collision, maneuvering - in-flight planning/decision - poor, pilot in command (cause) - judgment - poor, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - clearance - misjudged, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - clearance - not maintained, pilot in command (cause) - in-flight planning/decision - poor, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - ostentatious display, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - overconfidence in personal ability, pilot in command (cause) - In flight collision with terrain/water, descent - uncontrolled - stabilizer - separation (cause) - aircraft handling - not possible, pilot in command (cause) - terrain condition - ground (contributing factor) - Midair collision, maneuvering - in-flight planning/decision - poor, pilot in command (cause) - judgment - poor, pilot in command (cause) - clearance - misjudged, pilot in command (cause) - clearance - not maintained, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - in-flight planning/decision - poor, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - ostentatious display, pilot in command (cause) - overconfidence in personal ability, pilot of other aircraft (cause) - Loss of engine power, maneuvering - miscellaneous - loss,total (cause) - Forced landing, descent - emergency - In flight collision with object, approach - vfr pattern - final approach - object - fence (contributing factor) - precautionary landing - initiated, pilot in command (contributing factor) - remedial action - reduced, pilot in command (cause) ## Analysis (aircraft 2) BOTH ACFT INVOLVED IN THE COLLISION WERE PART OF A 4-PLANE FORMATION FLT EN ROUTE TO A GROUP FLY-IN. N6439R WAS SEEN TO CHANGE POSITIONS SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE FLT WHILE THE OTHER ACFT REMAINED STABLE. REPORTS FROM WITNESSES SAY THAT N6439R MADE 'CLOSE APPROACHES' & CROSS UNDERS' OF THE OTHER ACFT IN THE FLT. THE PLT OF N73708 SAID THAT FROM OFF HIS RIGHT SIDE 39R BANKED LEFT TO APPROACH HIS ACFT. WHEN THE BANK ANGLE OF 39R HAD NOT CHANGED AT 50 YDS DISTANCE, THE PLT OF 708 SAID HE STARTED A HARD EVASSIVE LEFT TURN BUT THE PROP OF 39R STRUCK THE BOTTOM OF HIS ACFT. THE VERSION TOLD BY THE PLT OF 39R WAS IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THE EVIDENCE & THE MAJORITY OF THE WITNESSES. ALL 3 OF THE 100 HR PVT PLTS SAID THEY WERE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THE PLT OF 39R WAS DOING, BUT SINCE HE HAD A COM/CFII & 900 HRS, THEY THOUGHT 'HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING.' ## Analysis (aircraft 1) BOTH ACFT INVOLVED IN THE COLLISION WERE PART OF A 4-PLANE FORMATION FLT EN ROUTE TO A GROUP FLY-IN. N6439R WAS SEEN TO CHANGE POSITIONS SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE FLT WHILE THE OTHER ACFT REMAINED STABLE. REPORTS FROM WITNESSES SAY THAT N6439R MADE 'CLOSE APPROACHES' & 'CROSS UNDERS' OF THE OTHER ACFT IN THE FLT. THE PLT OF N73708 SAID THAT FROM OFF HIS RIGHT SIDE 39R BANKED LEFT TO APPROACH HIS ACFT. WHEN THE BANK ANGLE OF 39R HAD NOT CHANGED AT 50 YDS DISTANCE, THE PLT OF 708 SAID HE STARTED A HARD EVASSIVE LEFT TURN BUT THE PROP OF 39R STRUCK THE BOTTOM OF HIS ACFT. THE VERSION TOLD BY THE PLT OF 39R WAS IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THE EVIDENCE & THE MAJORITY OF THE WITNESSES. ALL 3 OF THE 100 HR PVT PLTS SAID THEY WERE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THE PLT OF 39R WAS DOING, BUT SINCE HE HAD A COM/CFII & 900 HRS, THEY THOUGHT 'HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING.' ## Aircraft 1 - Registration: [N73708](https://openairdocs.org/deregistered/N73708-1985-06-27), registration cancelled 1985-06-27, S/N 17267621 (OpenAirDocs) - Reported make and model: CESSNA 172M - Registry model: [Cessna 172M](https://openairdocs.org/model/cessna-172m) (registry code 2072418) (OpenAirDocs) - Category: Airplane - Serial number: 17267621 - Airframe hours: 1464 - Engines: LYCOMING O-320-H2AD 160 horsepower reciprocating - Damage: Destroyed - Flight: Personal, Part 91 - Operator: Southwest Flite Center - Registered owner: Hans P. Treuenfels - Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal - Last inspection: 100 hour, April 9, 1985, 5 hours before - Departed: SDL, SCOTTSDALE, AZ - Destination: SEZ, SEDONA, AZ ## Aircraft 2 - Registration: [N6439R](https://openairdocs.org/deregistered/N6439R-2003-03-19), registration cancelled 2003-03-19, S/N 28-21621, built 1966 (OpenAirDocs) - Reported make and model: PIPER PA-28-140 - Registry model: [Piper PA-28-140](https://openairdocs.org/model/piper-pa-28-140) (registry code 7102802) (OpenAirDocs) - Registry engine: [Lycoming 0-320 series](https://openairdocs.org/engine/lycoming-0-320-series) (registry code 41508, reciprocating) (OpenAirDocs) - Category: Airplane - Serial number: 28-21621 - Airframe hours: 4611 - Engines: LYCOMING O-320-E2A 150 horsepower reciprocating - Damage: Substantial damage - Flight: Personal, Part 91 - Operator: William R. Thompson - Registered owner: William R. Thompson - Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal - Last inspection: Annual, July 7, 1984, 64 hours before - Departed: SDL, SCOTTSDALE, AZ - Destination: SEZ, SEDONA, AZ ## Flight crew As NTSB recorded them. NTSB leaves out names. - Pilot, aircraft N73708; age 20; private; airplane ratings: single-engine land; medical: class 3, valid medical--no waivers/lim.; seat: left; flight hours: 102 total, 31 in this make and model, 68 as pilot in command, 21 in the last 90 days, 9 in the last 30 days, 1 in the last 24 hours - Pilot, aircraft N6439R; age 20; flight instructor, commercial; airplane ratings: single-engine land, single-engine sea, multi-engine land; instrument ratings: airplane; medical: class 2, valid medical--no waivers/lim.; seat: left; flight hours: 915 total, 469 in this make and model, 827 as pilot in command, 330 in the last 90 days, 1 in the last 24 hours ## Weather - Conditions: Visual (VMC), Day - Wind: 100° at 5 knots - Visibility: 60 statute miles - Lowest ceiling: none - Temperature: 88 °F, dew point 34 °F - Altimeter: 29.00 inHg - Observed at: PHX, 54 nm away ## FAA reports on this event (2) The FAA's own accident and incident reports, matched to the aircraft by N-number and date (OpenAirDocs). - [Accident 19850414015332A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/19850414015332A), Apr 14, 1985: Cessna 172M, Camp Verde, AZ, Destroyed, 2 fatal. Was struck by cherokee 6439R during formation flight. Uncontrollable descent to ground impact. - [Accident 19850414015331A](https://openairdocs.org/incident/19850414015331A), Apr 14, 1985: Piper PA28140, Camp Verde, AZ, Substantial damage. Flew too close to and collided with Cessna 73708 during formation flying. Props struck Cessna aft of rear window. From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model. --- OpenAirDocs.org is an independent research project of [Contrail Labs](https://contraillabs.com/). It is not affiliated with the FAA or the NTSB. Source documents are U.S. government works in the public domain.