# NTSB NYC85LA094: Piper PA-28R-201, N2263Q, Red Hook, NY, March 31, 1985

- Type: NTSB accident investigation
- Classification: Accident · No injuries · Limited investigation · Final report
- Date: March 31, 1985, 10:50 local (15:50 UTC)
- Place: Red Hook, NY
- Coordinates: 41.990818, -73.870193 (estimated)
- Nearby events: https://openairdocs.org/map.md?lat=41.9908&lon=-73.8702&mi=10
- Phase of flight: [Enroute](https://openairdocs.org/ntsb-phases/400) (OpenAirDocs' grouping)
- Highest injury: No injuries
- Injuries: 4 uninjured
- Status: Completed
- Report: Approved by Office Director
- NTSB case key (mKey): 35852
- NTSB case page: https://web.ntsb.gov/investigations/?ntsbnumber=NYC85LA094
- NTSB report (PDF, downloads): https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/35852/pdf
- Page: https://openairdocs.org/ntsb/NYC85LA094

## Sequence of events

In NTSB's coding before 2008 (https://www.ntsb.gov/GILS/Documents/codman.pdf).

- In flight encounter with weather, cruise
  - weather condition - rain (contributing factor)
  - weather condition - icing conditions (contributing factor)
  - window,flight compartment window/windshield - ice (contributing factor)
  - visual/aural perception, pilot in command (contributing factor)
  - visual/aural perception, pilot of other aircraft (contributing factor)
- On ground/water collision with object, landing - flare/touchdown
  - radio communications - performed, pilot in command
  - radio communications - not used, pilot of other aircraft (contributing factor)
  - visual lookout - inadequate, pilot in command (cause)
  - visual lookout - inadequate, pilot of other aircraft (cause)
  - object - aircraft moving on ground (contributing factor)
- In flight encounter with weather, cruise
  - weather condition - rain (contributing factor)
  - weather condition - icing conditions (contributing factor)
  - window,flight compartment window/windshield - ice (contributing factor)
  - visual/aural perception, pilot in command (contributing factor)
  - visual/aural perception, pilot of other aircraft (contributing factor)
- On ground/water collision with object, taxi - to takeoff
  - radio communications - performed, pilot of other aircraft
  - radio communications - not used, pilot in command (contributing factor)
  - visual lookout - inadequate, pilot in command (cause)
  - visual lookout - inadequate, pilot of other aircraft (cause)
  - object - aircraft moving on ground (contributing factor)

## Analysis (aircraft 2)

DURING FLT, A PIPER PA-32R-201, N2263Q, & A BAINBRIDGE JODEL F-12, N5700, ENCOUNTERED STRUCTURAL ICING CONDITIONS. THE WINDSHIELDS OF BOTH ACFT BECAME COVERED WITH ICE WHICH RESTRICTED THE FORWARD VISIBILITY OF THE OCCUPANTS IN BOTH ACFT. N5700 LANDED 1ST. THE PLT OF N5700 TURNED HIS ACFT AROUND & WAS TAXIING ON THE RWY WHEN THE PLT OF N2263Q WAS LANDING. WITHIN SECONDS AFTER N2263Q TOUCHED DOWN, THE 2 ACFT COLLIDED. THE PLT OF N2263Q REPORTED THAT HIS PASSENGER, WHO WAS ALSO A PILOT, MADE THE APPROPRIATE RADIO CALLS IN THE TRAFFIC PATTERN. THE PLT OF N5700 REPORTED THAT HE REMOVED HIS HEADSET AFTER LANDING SO HE COULD GET HIS HEAD AGAINST THE SIDE WINDOW FOR BETTER VISION WHILE TAXIING.

## Analysis (aircraft 1)

DURING FLT, A PIPER PA-32R-201, N2263Q, & A BAINBRIDGE JODEL F-12, N5700, ENCOUNTERED STRUCTURAL ICING CONDITIONS. THE WINDSHIELDS OF BOTH ACFT BECAME COVERED WITH ICE WHICH RESTRICTED THE FORWARD VISIBILITY OF THE OCCUPANTS IN BOTH ACFT. N5700 LANDED 1ST. THE PLT OF N5700 TURNED HIS ACFT AROUND & WAS TAXIING ON THE RWY WHEN THE PLT OF N2263Q WAS LANDING. WITHIN SECONDS AFTER N2263Q TOUCHED DOWN, THE 2 ACFT COLLIDED. THE PLT OF N2263Q REPORTED THAT HIS PASSENGER, WHO WAS ALSO A PILOT, MADE THE APPROAPRIATE RADIO CALLS IN THE TRAFFIC PATTERN. THE PLT OF N5700 REPORTED THAT HE REMOVED HIS HEADSET AFTER LANDING SO HE COULD GET HIS HEAD AGAINST THE SIDE WINDOW FOR BETTER VISION WHILE TAXIING.

## Aircraft 1

- Registration: [N2263Q](https://openairdocs.org/aircraft/N2263Q), registered now, S/N 28R-7737030, built 1977 (OpenAirDocs)
- Reported make and model: PIPER PA-28R-201
- Registry model: [Piper PA-28R-201](https://openairdocs.org/model/piper-pa-28r-201) (registry code 7102816) (OpenAirDocs)
- Registry engine: [Lycoming I0360 series](https://openairdocs.org/engine/lycoming-i0360-series) (registry code 41515, reciprocating) (OpenAirDocs)
- Category: Airplane
- Serial number: 28R7737030
- Airframe hours: 2459
- Engines: LYCOMING IO-360-C1C6 200 horsepower reciprocating
- Damage: Substantial damage
- Flight: Personal, Part 91
- Operator: Red Hook Air Service
- Registered owner: George Drobot, Jr.
- Airworthiness certificate: Standard, Normal
- Last inspection: Annual, September 4, 1984, 28 hours before
- Airport: 46N, Skypark, runway 1, 2,666 × 30 ft, asphalt

## Aircraft 2

- Registration: [N5700](https://openairdocs.org/deregistered/N5700-1990-08-23), registration cancelled 1990-08-23, S/N F7077 (OpenAirDocs)
- Reported make and model: BAINBRIDGE JODEL F-12
- Registry model: [Bainbridge JODEL F-12](https://openairdocs.org/model/bainbridge-jodel-f-12) (registry code 47008B1) (OpenAirDocs)
- Category: Airplane, amateur-built
- Serial number: F7077
- Airframe hours: 423
- Engines: LYCOMING O-290-DL 140 horsepower reciprocating
- Damage: Substantial damage
- Flight: Personal, Part 91
- Registered owner: Georffrey N. Fletcher
- Airworthiness certificate: Special, Experimental (Special)
- Last inspection: 100 hour, July 1, 1984, 10 hours before
- Airport: 46N, Skypark, runway 1, 2,666 × 30 ft, asphalt

## Flight crew

As NTSB recorded them. NTSB leaves out names.

- Pilot, aircraft N2263Q; age 52; private; airplane ratings: single-engine land; medical: class 3, valid medical--w/ waivers/lim; seat: left; flight hours: 514 total, 263 in this make and model, 304 as pilot in command, 11 in the last 90 days
- Pilot, aircraft N5700; age 56; private; airplane ratings: single-engine land; medical: class 3, valid medical--w/ waivers/lim; seat: left; flight hours: 1,330 total, 120 in this make and model, 1,164 as pilot in command, 2 in the last 90 days, 1 in the last 24 hours

## Weather

- Conditions: Visual (VMC), Day
- Wind: 260° at 11 knots
- Visibility: 7 statute miles
- Lowest ceiling: 2,800 ft overcast
- Temperature: 36 °F, dew point 28 °F
- Altimeter: 30.00 inHg
- Observed at: POU, 24 nm away

From the NTSB's public API. Aircraft are matched to registry aircraft by N-number and event date, checked against the reported serial number, make and model; the registry's history has gaps, so older matches can be wrong. Compare the reported make and model.

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